Posted in English

Estória and História

I was corrected by a brasileiro who changed my “história” to “estória” according to this page, I don’t think it’s quite right – história seems to be preferred and estória deprecated in European portuguese at least. In Brasil it’s used more for narrative fiction (“Story”) as opposed to actual history, but even then it’s obviously not that common becuase I use “história quite often and it’s only been altered once.

Update

Well, I’ve already had one more correction (below) on this subject so I asked around on iTalki, where a Portuguese guy agreed with my tentative conclusion and a second person unearthed a couple of online posting boards (here and here) to support the Estória=story version. Most of the posts bear out my guess that it was more of a Brazilian thing, and a lot of Portuguese people seem to be harrumphing a great deal. But not all: some find the estória/história split natural. Maybe a generational or regional split?

There’s a lot of confusion around. For example one of the Portuguese peeps hotly denies that estória is a valid word because it’s too modern (Século XX), whereas Ciberdúvidas says it’s old – possibly Século XIII, before Columbus was even born! Maybe it’s one of these words that was part of the language at the time the Americas were colonised, got preserved in the speech patterns of the colonies and then crept back into the European form of the language, where it had been long forgotten, via media output by the more vibrant New World countries in the twentieth century. There are lots of similar words in American english (“gotten” as the past participle of the english verb “get” is the only one I can think of off hand but trust me, it’s not the only one). There are other strands to pick at – such as a reference to the Galega word “hestoria”, which puts us back in Marco Neves territory.

One of the posters on the two new threads mentions this little gem

Eu me lembro de ter lido em Guimarães Rosa (não posso dizer se foi em Primeiras Estórias ou em Tutaméia, não tenho meus livros à mão aqui agora) uma frase que dizia:
“A estória não quer ser história”.

which doesn’t shed much light because Guimarães Rosa is brazilian too, but it’s a great quote and a great illustration of the two words in action!

Update to the Update:

First reply from a Portuguese student confirms it is not used in Portugal and is regarded as an error. Video here explains everything:

 


Thank you Paulo and Bru for your answers to my question and thanks Manuel for your comment on this post (further acknowledgement deleted at request of person in question)

Posted in English, Portuguese

From Beneath You, It Debaixo

I get mixed up over the variants of prepositions so I’m going to lay them out in a tabular format and see if that helps

Trás Baixo Cima Frente
* Preposition: after Adjective: low, short Not really used on its own Noun: front
A- Atrás de = behind Abaixo: below, underneath Acima: above Afrente: não existe
A[ ] A trás: não existe A baixo: não existe A cima: não existe A frente: at the head of (and à frente: onward, ahead (of))
De Detrás: behind (specifically right behind) Debaixo: under, underneath Decima: não existe Defrente: não existe
De[ ] De trás: from  the back (movement) De baixo: from below De cima: Upper, from high up De frente: head on
Por Por trás: behind – at some place behind (less specific than “detrás”) Por baixo: below Por cima: On top, above, overhead Por frente: from the front
Para Para trás: to the back Para baixo: down, downward Para cima: Up, upwards Para frente: forwards
Por de… Por detrás: behind Por debaixo: beneath Por decima: não existe Por defrente: não existe
Em Em trás: não existe em baixo: down below (used a lot on youtube when inviting comments!) Em cima: On, above, up there Em frente: in front of (opposite – as opposed to )
And also… Anos atrás = years ago Abaixo also used for “down with…” as in “Abaixo o governo!” Ainda por cima = And on top of that (something else bad happened!) Daqui para a frente= henceforth
And also… De baixo can also mean bottom – “a gaveta de baixo”=bottom drawer De trás para a frente: backwards

Sources:

Linguee

Lusografias

Ciberdúvicas [por detrás] [Atrás] [a frente vs em frente]

Posted in English, Portuguese

When They Start the Beguine

Race Start
Race Start (Patrick via FLICKR Licensed Under Creative Commons Attribution (CC BY) 2.0 License)

This is a reply to a query about the difference between the english words “begin” and “start”. I’ve written it in portuguese and english, with the english starting about half way down, and obviously all the examples are in english, even in the portuguese text.

[Portuguese Version] 🇵🇹 #UNCORRECTEDPORTUGUESEKLAXON

Pensei muito nisso e discuti com uns outros faladores de inglês, incluindo uma americana, mas acho que não há grande diferença entra os dois países neste assunto. Continuo a acreditar que “start” e “begin”, têm o mesmo significado em 95 por cento das situações. Quando não são sinónimos, parece que o padrão é, de forme geral, que “begin” encaixa a ideia duma transição mais gradual, e “start” é uma mudança que acontece de repente. Isso não é uma regra muiiiiito forte. É o que chamamos um “rule of thumb” ou seja uma regra que é só uma guia mas não se aplica em todos os casos.

Por exemplo:

Situações em que “begin” é preferível ou é a única palavra que cabe na frase

  • I began running when I was in high school [verbo]
  • I have been running for three weeks but I am still a beginner [nome = novato/iniciante]
  • A book should have a beginning, a middle and an end [nome=início]

Situações em que “start” é a única palavra que cabe na frase

  • I started running when the PE teacher blew the whistle [verbo]
  • I started the engine [verbo]
  • The car won’t start [verbo]
  • Press the start button on your laptop [nome]

Situações em que a escolha de verbos depende do movimento, e pode influenciar a imagem mental do escritor

  • He was walking slowly but as the rain got heavier he began to run
  • He was walking slowly but when he heard footsteps behind him he started to run

Escolhi “start” aqui porque queria dá para entender que a pessoa mudou a taxa dos seus passos de repente, talvez num pânico. Na primeira frase, usa-se “begin” porque na minha imaginação andava cada vez mais rápido enquanto que a chuva tornava cada vez mais pesado, até começou a correr.

Vi alguns websites que dizem que “begin” é mais formal. Não acho que isso seja correcto. As vezes pode ser mais elegante mas isso é porque o ar abrupto de “start” pode diminuir a elegância. Por exemplo

  • If you’re all sitting comfortably, I will begin my 3 hour long poetry recital [verbo]

É melhor do que “start” porque poesia é algo que começa suavemente. “start” não era errado, mas “begin” soa melhor. Portanto, acho que isso de velocidade de transição é uma regra melhor até que tens um melhor conhecimento das subtilezas (absurdidades) da língua!

Espero que isso te ajude!

Notas de rodapé

  1. Há mais um significado de “start” que é o saltinho que uma pessoa faz quando leva um susto. É mais relacionado com um outro verbo semelhante: “startle” mas transmite a mesma impressão dum movimento súbito. Se tudo fosse calma na casa e, de repente, eu estourei um balão, a minha mulher diria ou
  • “Agh! You startled me” ou
  • “Agh! You gave me a start”

2. Aliás, também existe mais um verbo “commence” que é obviamente um cognato da palavra portuguesa “começar” mas é muito mais formal e quase nunca usado na dia-a-dia.


[English version] 🇬🇧

I’ve thought about this a lot and discussed it with some other english speakers including an american, although there isn’t much difference between the american and british usage. I still think “start” and “begin”, are synonymous 95% of the time. When they’re not synonymous, the pattern seems to be that “begin” conveys a more gradual transition and “start” is more sudden. The rule isn’t veerrry strong, but it’s a good rule of thumb when in doubt.

For example:

Situations where “begin” is the best or the only option

  • I began running when I was in high school [verb]
  • I have been running for three weeks but I am still a beginner [noun = novato/iniciante]
  • A book should have a beginning, a middle and an end [noun=início]

Situations in which “start” is the best or the only option

  • I started running when the PE teacher blew the whistle [verb]
  • I started the engine [verb]
  • The car won’t start [verb]
  • Press the start button on your laptop [noun]

Situations where the choice of words might depend on the style

  • He was walking slowly but as the rain got heavier he began to run
  • He was walking slowly but when he heard footsteps behind him he started to run

I chose “start” in the second example because I imagine the person suddenly changing pace when they hear someone following them, maybe out of fear. In the first, I chose “begin” because I think they might have gradually walked faster and faster as the rain got heavier and heavieer, until finally they start running.

I’ve seen websites that suggest “begin” is more formal. I don’t really agree with this, but sometimes the suddenness implied by “start” can puncture the elegance of a formal situation. For example, an announcement in a theatre

  • If you’re all sitting comfortably, I will begin my 3 hour long poetry recital [verbo]

Here, “begin” is better because it fits better with the gentle nature of a poetry reading. “Start” would not be wrong, but “begin” sounds right. That’s why I think this idea of gradual change vs sudden changes is a better guide than formal vs informal

I hope that helps!

Footnotes

  1. There’s another meaning of “start”, which is the little jump someone makes when they get frightened suddenly. It’s related to a similar verb “startle”, so if I were to suddenly burst a balloon in the house when everything was calm and peaceful, my wife might say either
  • “Agh! You startled me” or
  • “Agh! You gave me a start”

2.There’s another verb “commence” that’s obviously cognate with the portuguese word “começar” but it’s much more formal and tends not to be used much in day-to-day conversation.

 

Posted in Portuguese

From Sei to Shining Çei

Here’s an interesting snippet: in “Reaccionario Com Dois Cês“, Ricardo Araújo Pererira has someone mocking a football player online after he is the victim of a mugging:  “xupa, é bem feita por çeres um ignorante que ço çabe dar pontapés na bola”

I wondered what all the mistakes were all about – was it imitating a regional accent or something? Was the person writing just not very clever? Because the stray Çs didn’t seem like the kinds of typos one would make normally.

Apparently it’s a way of mocking someone’s lack of intelligence. If someone answers a question but you think their point is nonsense, instead of saying “sei” (I know) you reply “çei” , implying that’s the sort of thing only an idiot who can’t even spell “sei” would believe. Or if they write a tweet with lots of errors in it you can say “você çabe falar muito bem português” just as in english you might say “You’re grammer is exelent” or something.

Thanks Renato for helping answer this conundrum.

Posted in English

101 Transgressions

502xSo I got this book “101 Erros de Português que Acabam Com a Sua Credibilidade” (Available on Amazon | Bertrand) , which is really, really *not* aimed at estrangeiros like me, so a good deal of it either went over my head or seemed like something I could ignore safely. but I thought I’d go through it and list out the errors that are worth remembering. I’ll leave out the obvious idiocies – the portuguese equivalent of saying “He asked pacifically how big the specific ocean was” – and also the very fancy, finer-points-of-the-language stuff and just stick to listing out the ones that might be useful to refer back to later.

Ordinal numbers – because portuguese uses primeiro, segundo, etc instead of first, second, etc, they use 1°, 2° instead of our 1st, 2nd, etc. Now, obviously, this looks like a degree sign, so to distinguish it from a temperature, they put a dot after the number like this: “2.°“. Or should. The same applies to feminine nouns such as days of the week: 2.ª-feira. Note the dot, the dash and the lower case f! This seems not to be very strictly applied by native speakers. This is the first hit I get on google. No dot, no dash, upper case F

Percentages – plural or singular?

  • If  you’re saying “1% of (some plural noun) then it’s plural to match the noun. 1% das pessoas são portuguesas
  • If it’s just 1% of a quantity, it is singular for 1% and plural for any other number. 1% da piscina é xixi, A gente deu a sua opinião no referendo e 52% votaram sim.

Collective nouns – as I noted in a previous post, the portuguese are a bit more consistent in using colleective nouns like “a gente”, “a família” and “a maioria” as singulars that take singular verbs and singular adjectives but the author reminds us that if that’s followed by a plural, it reverts to being plural: “A maioria dos ingleses votaram para o Brexit”. Basically, it hinges on whether you’re talking about the group as a solid mass or as a set of many individuals, I think

Acerca de/A cerca de/Há cerca de – three similar-sounding phrases.

  • Acerca de means something like “on the subject of” or “with respect to”
  • “A cerca de” means “approximately” or “about” in situations where we’re dealing with something being (at) a certain distance away in time or space
  • In “há cerca de”, the “cerca de” is doing the same job as in the case above, but it’s used in sentences where an “há” would make sense – so it’s some quantity of time ago, or where “existe” would work – so there’s roughly siuch-and-such an amount present

Laughter – Ah! Ah! Ah! not Ha! Ha! Ha! This seems like a weird thing to have as a rule, but that’s what the book says, babe. Ah! on its own is still an interjection, denoting surprise, as in english

Billions – Bilião should designate um milhão de milhões as it… should in the UK. Curiously, the author has given us up as a lost cause and grouped us with the countries that use a short form billion – a thousand millions. Brazil is one too, but a long-form billion is the standard in Europe generally.

Bimensal and bimenstral – OK, a bit obscure this one. Bimensal means twice a month and bimenstral is every two months.

Cará(c)ter – has an accent in the singular form, even though the plural – caracters – doesn’t. Obviously, this is just for alphanumeric characters, not characters in a film – those are personagens or protagonistas.

Círculo vicioso, not ciclo vicioso – as in english, dammit!!!

Concerteza is not a thing – it’s com certeza and that’s that

Discordar – When you agree, it’s “concordar com” but when you disagree you have to use “dioscordar de” – so you disagree from someone and agree with them. I like that.

Fake Acordo Ortográfico changes – Some words that look like they should have dropped their C in the AO haven’t. It’s contacto, not contato, and facto not fato (which would be confusing, what with that already being a word)

Dates seem to have set formats so it’s either the long form

  • 6 de maio de 1969 (note the lower case, because all months and weekday names have lower case letters in the AO)

or in a short form, with the year foremost

  • Com traço 1969-05-06
  • Com barra 1969/05/06
  • Com ponto 1969.05.06

Decerto and de certo – this was interesting to me because I didn#’t even know there was a word “decerto”. Apparently it means the same as “com certeza” and “certamente”. De certo (as two words) is used in phrases like “de certo modo” and “o que temos de certo” – so it means “in a certain…” or “of what’s true”

De forma que – “In order to” can be used in place of “para”. Occasionally written as “de forma a que” but this is wrong.

Despender – “to expend” – always has an e as its second letter, not an i, even though the noun (“dispêndio”) and the adjective form (“dispendioso”) have an i.

Descricao and Discricao – Description and Discretion. Not to be confused

“Em Vez de…” and “Ao invés de” – are sometimes used interchangeably. The first one means “Instead of” and the second “Contrary to”. So one could be used in a sentence like “Tocou uma guitarra em vez dum piano” (“he played a guitar instead of a piano”) the other would be used in “Ao invés de melhorar a banda, a guitarra fez ainda pior” (“Rather than making the band better, the guitar just made it worse”).

Empenho/Empenhamento – both mean the same thing (commitment) but the shorter one is preferable

Foreign Words – like french, portuguese is plagued by words from english showing up especially in discussions about media, business and computing. She recomments finding portuguese equivalents where possible: Gosto for “like” on facebooks for example, clique for click, aswell as avoiding neologisms based on other languages like “equipe” for “equipa” and “controle” for “controlo”. There’s a list of “estrangeirismos” on the Portal Da Língua Portuguesa along with some suggested alternatives, where they exist.

Latin phrases – behave like in english, so they’re italicised when they’re used, and the littlest one, etc., has a dot after it, with surrounding punctuation behaving just as it would in english too.

Fim de semana – not fim-de-semana

Adverbs ending in -mente – No adverb ending with -mente needs an accent, even if the adjective it’s based on does. This seems like a useful rule! I love useful rules!

Some stuff about “haver” – apparently some people write há-des for some reason. Presumably thinking the -de is part of the verb, and most verbs take an s on the end in the second person singular. It’s hás-de of course. Some people also use “houveram” as the bast tense of “há” when talking about more than one thing “houveram muitos erros no meu último blogue” but unlike “existir”, you don’t use the plural form in that context.

Business Bullshit – cited examples of fancy words being misused in the workplace to sound more hardcore

  • “implementar” being used erroneously as a fancy way of saying “realizar” or “fazer” or whatever.
  • “despoletar” being used in place of espoletar (espoletar means the same as descadear, original, provocar… but despoletar means pretty much the exact opposite!)
  • Empreendorismo in place of Empreendedorismo. If you’re going to talk about entreprenoors, at least spell the word right, for heaven’s sake
  • Sediado means “headquartered”, as in “Many banks headquartered in London are considering a change of location after Brexi”). Not to be confused with “sedeado” which means “scrubbed with a silk brush” and is um… much less common.

Imprimir and its participles – Imprimir has two participles – imprimido and impresso. Imprimido is used with ter and haver (tenho imprimido….) when it’s behaving in a more “verby” way and impresso is used with “estar” and “ser” when it’s behaving in a more “adjectivey” way. “o documento foi impresso”

Interveio – intervir is based on vir not ver so the past tense is “interveio” and not “interviu”

Informar (de) que – Informar someone de que something is used when the sentence refers to who you’re informing (“Informo o professor de que chega atrasado”) and informar que is just used when you’re giving out some information but not saying who to (“Informa que chega atrasado”)

Ir ao/de encontro – “Espero que esta proposta vá ao encontro aos seus objectivos” means “I hope this suggestion meets your objectives”, but if we change ao to de it means “I hop it opposed your objectives”. Common mistake, apparently!

Cash – euros, dollars etc are written with small letters when referraing to actual day-to-day notes in circulation (libras, euros) and capitals when discussing the currency itself (A Libra Esterline). When writing amounts of money, The Euro symbol or EUR goes after the number, not before as in english.

Numbers – some rules for orthography

  • The portuguese use a virgula (comma) in place of a decimal place and a space in place of a comma – 1 000 000 is a million and 3,14159265359 is pi.
  • Pleasingly, an individual digit in a long number is called an algarismo which is obviously drawn from the same (arabic) root as “algorithm”. If there are 4 or fewer, you don’t need to bother with the space. So it’s 1000 for a thousand, not 1 000 but 10 000 for ten thousand, not 10000
  • Numbers smaller than ten can be written out in full (three, four) but larger number should be in the form of numbers (273) or mixed (2.3 milhões – note that millions are pluralised here!)

Ó vs Oh – Ó is used when addressing or calling someone as in “Ó Evaristotens cá disto?” the phrase in O Pátio das Cantigas that drives the shopkeeper to distraction. Oh! is more of an indicator of surprise: “Oh que pena!”

Reflexive pronouns – being misheard as part of the verb – e.g percebeste / percebes-te, falasse/fala-se. Just something to be aware of, really.

Porque/Por que/ porquê – A lot of people get these wrong, apparently, and especially in questions.

  • Por que – “for what”. Can often do swapsies with “por qual”
  • Porque – “why” (interrogative) or because (declarative)
  • Porquê – In the interrogative, it’s similar to porque but it’s a deeper question, asking about someone’s motives. If you’re at a job interview and want to know why someone wants to work at the organisation, use Porquê? but if you just want to know why they liked the book it’s Porque? Porque is more conversational and more friendly. In the declarative it just means “motive. “É preciso avaliar o porquê dessa decisão”.

Poder/Puder – Poder is very irregular but apparently you can remember when it’s a u and when it’s an o by remembering that it’s an o when the e that follows it is enunciated as an ê and u when the e is enunciated like an é. TBH, I’m none the wiser but i’ll interrogate Mrs Lusk about it later when she’s recovered from my obtuseness over the difference between porquê and porque. For a start, there are some parts of the verb where the e is silent, or an near as dammit.

Senão and se não – Whew – already written a post about this one.

Reunir – Normally means “bring together”. Used reflexively (“reunir-se”) it means “meet”. If it’s followed by “com” (ie, “meet with”, it’s always reflexive.

Abbreviations – As in english, there’s a difference between “acrónimos” (abbreviations like LASER and NATO that can be said as words) and “siglas” (standard abbreviations like UN or RSPCA that are said letter-by-letter). They are to be written in caps with no dots between them. To make them plural, you pluralise only the article – e.g. “As FAQ”, not “As FAQs”. Nobody is quite sure whether SMS is masculine or feminine so maybe say “uma mensagem” instead and save yourself the headache.

Ter de and Ter que – I’ve seen a few different teachers defending different opinions on this one but Elsa Fernandes is of the school of thought that thinks “Ter de” is right and “ter que” is a vulgarisation. Tenho de fazer alguma coisa means I have to do something. You can say “tem muito que melhorar” meaning “It has a lot that is beneficial” but not “ter que fazer alguma coisa”. It’s done wrong often eough that you’ll see it that way though.

Trata(m)-se de – Like “haver”, “tratar-se” is a verb that is basically only ever used in the third-person singular. Trata-se de means something like “it refers to” or “it deals with” or even just “it’s an example of”… it’s quite hard to translate though. I used to think it meant “it’s about” so I’d say stuff like “Este livro trata-se dum homem que…” but that’s wrong. The example she gives is “trata-se de tecnologias capazes de transformar a forma como trabalhamos”, which is something like “It’s all about technologies that can change how we work”.

Ups! – Not Oops!

Compound verbs with pronouns – In the example give, “vou-me ligar à internet” or “vou ligar-me à internet”, either is fine. It doesn’t go into great detail so I have had a look at the gramar book. The rules seem to be:

  • Compound verbs such as the preterito-mais-que-perfeito composto take the pronoun after the auxiliary: “Ela tinha-me escrito uma carta”
  • More involved comound tenses like “ter de fazer alguma coisa” and “haver de fazer alguma coisa” seem like the pronoun would follow the main verb because it would be too clunky to put it anywhere else.
  • In other kinds of compound verbs using Ir+infinitive, for example, it’s more a question of style and formality than strict rules. Sticking the pronoun onto the auxiliary sounds more informal, on the main verb more formal.
  • Obviously the usual rules apply regarding the pronoun going first in questions, in negative sentences and in subordinate clauses (ie, after a “que”)

It tends not to matter whether the pronoun follows the main vern or the auxiliary. It’s more a matter of style than rules (thank the lord! at last!) except where the auxiliary in question is “ter” or “haver”

It’s a funny old book. It purports to show errors “that will obliterate your credibility” but in some cases, she’s just highlighting that there are two options but one is preferable, which doesn’t seem like it would obliterate anyone’s credibility. In short, it seems more like a style guide and arguably a bit pedantic in places. There’s also an error (I think – and my wife agrees) on page 36!

Posted in English, Portuguese

Vinte e Dois Minutos Atrasado, Gelo Preto em Norbiton

My attempt at explaining (in portuguese, mostly) the difference between the english words “late” and “delayed”

11051

Delayed

Delayed é o particípio passado do verbo “delay” (acho que o verbo mais perto em português é “adiar” ou possivelmente “atrasar”). Pode usa-se como adjectivo. Não se aplica nunca como adverbio
“I was delayed on my way to work”
“My train was delayed”
MAS NUNCA
“I arrived delayed”
Se alguma coisa é delayed, acontece mais tarde do que as minhas expectativas mas não necessariamente tarde de mais ou “mais tarde que permitido” digamos assim.

Late

Late pode ser um adjectivo ou um adverbio. Portanto, podemos dizer
“I am late” (adbjectivo) ou
“I arrived late” (adverbio)
Late implica que o evento aconteceu (ou a pessoa checgou) tarde de mais

Later

Embora Later é relacionado com “Late” e pode significar “ainda mais atrasado, é mais comum que quer dizer “depois”.

Exemplos

Há uma regra na minha empresa que empregados devem chegar antes de 09:00. Eu costumo de chegar as 08:00
Um dia, havia um pneu furado na minha bicicleta. Por isso, apanhei o autocarro e cheguei as 08:45. Disse “I was DELAYED on my way to work” porque cheguei mais tarde do que normal (I arrived LATER than usual”) mas não precisei de oferecer nenhum desculpa. I was DELAYED but I was NOT LATE because I still arrived before 09:00
Havia duas reuniões naquele dia.
Uma foi agendado para 09:30, mas o chefe mandou um email para mudar a hora para 10:00 porque tive uma telefonema muito importante.
Uma foi agendado para 14:00, mas comecei as 14:30 porque o chefe bebeu de mais durante a hora de almoço e esqueci-se do agendamento.
The first meeting was DELAYED because everyone agreed that it should start LATER than usual
The second meeting was also delayed, but we could say it started LATE because it should have happened at 14:00 but it started half an hour after that time due to the boss being drunk

Há outros significados de “late” também que são relacionados mas não se confundam com “delayed”
“The Late Twentieth Century” = os últimos anos do século XX
“My late father” = um modo muito respeitoso de dizer “O meu pai que está morto”

Posted in English

Of Mais And Menos

I usually write “more […] than” as “mais […] do que” but I occasionally see it written as “mais de” or “mais que” so to straighten it out in my head here is a distillation of the relevant Ciberdúvidas pages. The same seems to apply for other comparatives – melhor, menor, pior etc.

Mais do que and Mais que are correct and interchangeable in the following scenarios

  1. When there is an adjective between the “mais” and the rest of the expression
    • Este livro é mais grande do que “O Senhor Dos Anéis”
    • Este livro é mais grande que “O Senhor Dos Anéis”
  2. When there is nothing between the parts and it goes straight on to a pronoun
    • Eu escrevo mais do que ele
    • Eu escrevo mais que ele
  3. When the expression is followed by a relative oration
    • Ela escreve mais do que aquilo que julga
    • Ela escreve mais que aquilo que julga

That third one is a bit hard to grasp. “I write more than (whatever amount) you think”, so it’s pointing back to a noun, where the noun is some amount…? This makes it different from the next example where it’s comparing two verbs: “I read more than I write”

Mais do que is the preferred option when

  1. The expression is immediately followed by a verb
    • Eu leio mais do que escrevo

Mais que is the preferred option when

  1. The expression is immediately followed by another adjective – ie, when you are making comparisons between two adjectives
    • Sou mais bonito que inteligente (“I am more good-looking than intelligent”)

Mais de is the preferred option when

  1. The expression is comparing to a straightforward number – which usually means it’s followed by an actual number rather than a reference to some other thing
    • Mais de 17 milhões de pessoas votaram pelo Brexit
    • Comprei mais de uma dezena de livros na livraria
    • Naquele supermercado trabalham mais de 100 pessoas

Conclusion:

  • Use “mais de” if you are saying it’s more than a specific number
  • Use “mais que” when you are comparing two characteristics of the same person/thing (which I guess will be a rare occurrence!)
  • Use “mais do que” as the go-to option when neither of the above applies, or when in doubt since it seems to be the most common.

References

Melhor do que/ Melhor que

Mais que

Mais de

And some extra wisdom about when to use “mais que” was extracted from an actual papery book called “Portuguese, An Essential Grammar” by Amélia P Hutchinson and Janet Lloyd

Posted in English

It’s All Too Much

More jottings from Ciberdúvidas, this time about different ways of saying too many/much. There does seem to be an overlap between the uses, so I’ll just spread them out and see what’s what.

Demais

Can be:

  1. An adverb meaning “a heck of a lot”. Ele fuma demais seems to be “he’s a heavy smoker” and not “he smokes too much”
  2. An intensifier where it does the same job as the adverb but it underscores other adverbs or adjectives – A jarra é frágil demais; vai partir-se
  3. A kind of indefinite nouny-pronouny thing along the lines of “the surplus” or “the others”: Daquelas senhoras, uma comeu peixe, as demais comeram carne 
  4. A way of saying “além disso”: Esse trabalho é muito difícil; demais, é mal pago [also spelled “ademais” in this case]

De Mais

Ciberdúvidas says it’s an adverb but it’s behaving like an adjective, expressing that the amount is excessive. It’s equivalent to “a mais”. It’s always referring to quantity, not degree. Comprei livros de mais

Demasiado

Can be

  1. An adjective and fulfills the same function as de mais. Note that, like other adjectives, the ending changes. It’s more commonly used in Portugal than in Brazil. Goes before the word it’s qualifying. Passam demasiados carros. 
  2. An adverb, where it fulfills the same function as demais. Comi demasiado.
Posted in English

Don’t Even Think About It, Se Não Way

More jottings from Ciberdúvidas, this time relating to the difference between “se não” and “senão”.

Senão (just one word) can be:

  1. A noun meaning “drawback” or “defect” – the example given in the article, “Não há bela sem senão” menas “there’s no beauty without a drawback” or if you’re feeling poetic, “every rose has it’s thorn”
  2. As a linking element meaning one of several things in english, which all have the common theme of expressing an alternative case:
      • “or else” – Fala mais alto senão não te oiço means “Speak up, or else I won’t hear you”
      • “but (on the contrary)” – Não dá quem tem, senão quem quer bem means “It isn’t those who have that give but to those who really want to”
      • “if not” – O que é a vida senão uma luta? means “What is life if not a struggle? [NB – it only means “if not” in this kind of context though – where it’s essentially doing the same job as “except” – contrast with the meaning of “se não” below]
      • “except” Ninguém falou senão o meu irmão means “Nobody spoke except my brother
  3. Paired with another “nao”, this alternative case can morph into “only” or “nothing but”. For example Ele não tinha senão uma atitude a tomar: proteger a mãe.” means “He has nothing but this one attitude: to protect his mother”
  4. Paired with “Quando” it means “suddenly”. Eu estava quase na escola senão quando um carro atropelou um aluno means “I was almost at school when suddenly a car knocked over a student

Se Não (two words) is a lot less awkward. It means what it looks like it means: “If not” in most contexts we would normally use them. For example the Primo Levi book called “If Not Now, When” in english is called “Se Não Agora, Quando?” in Portuguese.

Some more examples:

  1. Se não fosse um homem, gostaria de ser um sapo” – If I weren’t a man, I’d like to be a frog”
  2. “Tenho cem livros de PG Wodehouse se não mais.” I have a hundred books by PG Wodehouse, if not more

This second one is the sort of situation I would make a mistake in since it looks like one of the examples for senão, but it’s subtly different.

The article gives this helpful tip: Uma regra simples para se verificar esta situação: neste caso é possível introduzir a expressão “é que” entre o “se” e o “não”. So…

  • Tenho sem livros de PG Wodehouse se é que não tinha mais.

According to the rule, that should break in cases where we would want to use senão:

  • Fala mais alto se é que não [???] não te oiço
  • Não dá quem tem, se é que não [dá] quem quer bem
  • O que é a vida se é que não é uma luta?

Hm… I’m not sure. The first and second are definitely wrong, but the third means. “What is life if it is not a struggle”. Has that broken the sentence…? Not completely. It’s subtly different, but… Bit shady, that one.

“Se não” occasionally comes up in an even more separate way where you have a negative statement with a reflexive, passive or pronomial verb (cf this post)

  • Quem se não sente de agravos, não é honrado.

Here the verb is “sentir-se” but the se has gone ahead of everything else. Seems like a tedious and annoying way of writing a sentence to me, but hi ho.

Posted in English

Menos At Work

I sometimes get confused between “pelo menos” and “ao menos” so here are some jottings about different expressions with preposition+menos. They can just occur randomly. For example “A simplificação traduzir-se-á, no entanto, por menos exigências administrativas” just means it’ll result in fewer administrative overheads, but this is about where they’re used together with more co-ordination. The bulk of it comes from Ciberdúvidas and from Gramática Aplicada Níveis B2, C1.

Pelo menos

Pelo menos means “at least” and can be used anywhere you’d use “at least” in english including seemingly idiomatic things like “At least tell me your name, even if you won’t tell me anything else”

Ao menos

Is essentially the same as pelo menios but with the important difference that you can’t use it for quantity – so if you’re saying “I need at least ten chickens” it’s “preciso de pelo menos dez frangos” and not “ao menos”.

A menos que

This means “unless” and since it introduces something that only might happen, it needs a subjunctive:

“Eu estarei lá a menos que chuva” (“I’ll be there unless it rains”)

Por menos …. que

There’s a set of phrases in Gramática Aplicada that correspond to english phrases like “No matter how much money you have, you can’t buy happines”. There aren’t any examples that use “menos” but on the same principle I assume you can do this sort of thing:

“Por menos roupas que eu use, estou sempre som suor” (“no matter how little I’m wearing, I’m always sweaty”)